Amway - A Groupthink Phenomenon?

http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Other November 27 2011

I have read all of these posts. Interesting that everyone who supports Amway cannot spell very well. Lots of typos and grammatical errors in here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information.

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds" recently, all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear Yager scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way.

Tricked Into Attending An Amway Meeting?

A recent comment on another Amway blog:

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/

Author: Nat Comment:

I'm still in recovery from my recent experience with Amway! Do you know how long did it take me to feel this way? One day! I recently met a couple with a kid in the park, while I was with my 7 years old daughter. They appeared to be very happy, positive and really liked me. Well, we exchanged the numbers and here we are, we are friends! One day they called me and said that they wanted to discuss a business opportunity. I met up with them and they went over it very briefly and when I asked if it was Amway, they didn't answer....

They convinced me to go with them to the centre and stupid me, I went. When we arrived, I saw Amway name on the building, I thought or NO! They practically opened my bag to join this cult! They made sure, that I came with them in their car and let me tell you, I felt trapped!

Amway is a scam, not to mention it's a cult, some sort of scary religion. People are so brainwashed and totally possessed.

Historical facts about Amway: China banned Amway as a multi level plan, allowing them to operate only as a retail shops, as they are treating the concept as FRAUD!!! People lost money, friends and family. 99% of all Amway sales people never earn even one penny of profit! These are the facts, not a theory, or an opinion!

THE GREATEST FACTOR SUSTAINING AMWAY IS NOT SALES, SINCE IT HAS NO CUSTOMERS, ONLY A REVOLVING GROUP OF FAILED SALES PEOPLE!!! Lastly, products are average and extremely expensive! Someone earlier posted a brilliant comment: Your garage will be filled with detergent and you will have no friends, or a family! It happened to me two days ago and I'm still boiling! These people, didn't just robed me of my sunday, they also violated me!!! Who ever thinks this is the way to make a fortune are sadly mistaking.....I do hope someone who is thinking to join, read some stories, as I would hate to see people investing time, money, heart, saul and health into this!

8-12 Hours A Week To Freedom?

One of the myths that upline used to, and likely still perpetuate is the claim that you can build an Amway mega empire on 8-12 hours per week. I'm venturing an educated guess that this number is used because while it still represents time, it is probably less hours than working a part time job. But let's take a closer look at this 8-12 hours per week.

If you listen to one (1) cd per day as recommended by upline and read one of their "success" books 15 minutes each day, you are already close to nine hours of time used and neither of these activities produces any income for your Amway business. In fact, both activities cost you money and produce no tangible result. If you spend another 15 minutes a day contacting people, you are close to 12 hours per week. Where will you find additional time to show the plan and to expand your name and contact list? What about servicing customers, at least for IBOs who actually may have some customers.

What about attending meetings and functions? These are also non income producing activities. It's no wonder the vast majority of IBOs don't make money. Their upline has them running around participating in activities that produce no income for their businesses. Ironically, these non income producing activities such as listening to a cd, produces a lot of income for certain iplines who produce and sell them. To me, it is just an elaborate game of bait and switch played by upline. They tell you that their system is foolproof and that you will make it if you don't give up. Not true.

You sell the prospect the dream of financial freedom. You tell that that Amway is their best chance. You tell them that you can help them and that the tools of the business (standing order, voicemail, books, functions) are the key to their success. Those who are serious enough to commit to the system likely won't quit without making some effort and will allow uplines to earn some nice profits before these downline eventually realize they aren't profitable and quit. Because many IBOs are sponsored by family and friends, you don't see too many formal complaints about the business. Most people chalk it up as a life lesson and do not complain.

But IBOs and information seekers, do not be fooled into thinking that you will create a financial empire by working 8-12 hours a week. That would be far fetched. The number of highly successful Amway IBOs versus the number who sign up can be compared to lottery winners.

Amway Losers?

One of the things I recall as an IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then, but having been out of the system more than ten years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions. Doing all that only to lose money.

What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the neverending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cash I threw down the crapper.

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions and I am scheduled to be retired before the age of 60 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.

So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.

Can Amway IBOs Give A Straight Answer?

One of the humorous things about Amway IBOs is their ability to say a whole lot without having any substance. They'll talk about how great the business is and how much they have learned and then when you ask if they made any money, you either get dead silence or you get some answer about how they's seen a copy of a check from someone's upline diamond or something like that. But it's very rare that an IBO will be upfront about their earnings. Of course I can understand that someone brand new might not have made a whole lot, but I have seen some IBOs outright lie and say they've been in Amway a month and they're making $5000 a month or some other tall tale like like.

Even when discussing some Amway released information such as the average earnings of an IBO, you can hear all kinds of excuses provided by Amwayers. They will make excuses like most IBOs do nothing. As if that isn't a problem in itself. Or they make stupid analogies about people signing up for a gym membership and then not doing anything. As if owning a business and exercising are the same thing. I even hear questionable claims about how so many people sign up as IBOs to get lower prices. I chuckle when I hear that because Amway's prices in general, are not competitive with big retailers. I believe that is because Amway must add the cost of IBO bonuses in the cost of their goods and services. While an IBO might save from the full retail price of Amway products, you can (in most cases) find the same or a similar product cheaper online or at Walmart.

Another area where IBOs like to divert the discussion is when the discussion is about the success rate of IBOs in general. Based on Amway's own numbers, less than one half of one percent of IBOs reach the level of platinum. Platinum is the level where allegedly, an IBO either breaks even or starts to make some net profit. It would depend on whether the IBO is involved in the tools and to whet level of participation. But IBOs like to downplay this fact as if people simply did not work hard enough or did not learn enough, rather than simply acknowledging that the system itself might be flawed.

The last area I see issues is when talking about selling products. I suspect that product sales to no IBOs is relatively small. I believe there may be some exceptional people who can sell, but people in general, do not like to or do not possess the skills to sell products. Yet I see IBOs making all kinds of stories about "selling" to customers. I rarely get a straight answer about product sales as well. The fact that many Amway IBOs can't give a straight answer is quite telling.

Why Do Amway IBOs Criticize Jobs?

One of the things that IBO leaders do quite often in their recruitment pitch for Amway, is to put down people's jobs. They criticize people's bosses and the fact that an employee needs to report somewhere to earn a living. They try to paint the picture of a job being compared to slavery. They do this apparently to make people feel uncomfortable with their present situation so they will be open to looking at the Amway opportunity as a means to make a living. They may call a job "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss".

So I will ask - What's wrong with a job? A job is not slavery. People apply for their jobs and they agree to a wage or salary in exchange for their services. Certainly, you can leverage a higher wage or salary if you have an education or a skill, such as being able to work in the construction field. A job ususally offers more than just a wage. A job often allows one to have benefits such as medical insurance, a 401K retirement plan, and some other benefits such as paid vacation and/or sick leave.

A recent site visitor bemoans concept of working for minimum wage, where a husband and wife would earn in the neighborhood of 30K if they both work full time at minimum wage. Of course, a high school student can earn minimum wage so two adults only able to generate that kind of income makes me think my site visitor is speaking of people with very little to offer an employer. Most people may start out as entry level, but earn more and more as they gain experience and can offer more to their employer. An employee might also be able to promote themselves if they can prove to the employer that they can manage more responsibility.

What does the average Amway business owner experience? $115 a month income (which is probably way above average)? Most IBOs as outlined in "the plan" earn about $10 a month and may have expenses such as standing order which will take away from that tiny profit. Thus an average business building IBO stands to net a loss. It is very easy to look at the math and make that conclusion. A dedicated IBO attending meetings and functions and buying the other tools will likely spend more than $200 a month on average to be on the system. Couples will spend more.

So I ask again. What's wrong with a job? You have a net gain each and every month, be able to pay for your living expenses, and allow you to contribute to society by paying taxes. The average CORE IBO is a drain on the US tax paying society by spending money on standing order and functions and then deducting these expenses when filing their taxes. The only beneficiary is the upline leaders who sell standing orders and function tickets. If the IRS actually took IBOs to task, I'd be interested to see what kinds of deductions would be not allowed? I bet it would help the US treasury to recover all that money.

The Amway Systems Work?

Many IBOs and Amway supporters adhere to the idea that their system works. As far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that the system works. The system generally consists of a website, voicemail, standing orders and seminars or functions, as well as meetings to show the plan, etc. While Amway supporters will claim that nearly everyone who succeeds is on the system, they won't mention how everyone who succeeds also has hundreds if not thousands of downlines who do not succeed, even with earnest effort in building the business using the stsem.

Edward O. Thorpe was a math professor at M.I.T. who studied and wrote a theory on Blackjack, and found that it was mathematically possible for a blackjack player to have an edge over the house in a game of blackjack. Casinos scoffed at the theory and said it was just that. A theory with no real life application. Well, Mr. Thorpe started playing small and found that his theory was correct. He was counting cards in blackjack and making consistent money. His book eventually became a best seller. The casinos were ticked off and started kicking out people who were obviously winning and counting cards. Counting cards is not illegal but casinos can refuse to allow a player on their premises. But what casinos did not notice right away, was that their profits were skyrocketing because so many people knew the theory but could not or were not capable of executing the card counting system.

But hey, the system works so everyone should count cards for a living right? Afterall, it is proven by math that the cards will eventually favor a player and in the long run, you can make huge profits from playing blackjack. Of course not, it is ridiculous for people to think that card counting is a good way to make a buck. Not everyone has the bankroll, the skill, and the patience to succeed in card counting. Most people are better off not even trying this.

In my informed opinion, this card counting system is just like WWDB, BWW, LTD, N21 or other Amway systems. For one thing, card counting is a proven system. The Amway systems are not. But it can be viewed as similar in that very few people can use the system and make it work. Even when hundreds of thousands may try it, very few will succeed in both Amway and card counting. In both "systems", those who do not succeed can lose thousands of dollars. In both systems, doing things right can still result in losses.

In both systems, it is "possible" to succeed, but it is highly unlikely. The vast majority of people simply do not possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to make the systems work for them. You also need some money, some patience, and some luck in order to be a long term success. This article is not about comparing the Amway systems to gambling, it is about a person's ability to make the system work. The difference is that nobody promotes card counting as a good way to make a buck. The same holds true about Amway and their systems. It is not a good system to make money.