Lying To Succeed?

 One of the things my upline leaders used to always talk about was how they wanted everyone to succeed. Looking back, I believe they were lying and simply wanted the faithful downline to keep spending money on tools whether they succeeded or not. Now I am not claiming that every single upline leader does this, but primarily the ones who run "systems", such as WWDB, N21, BWW, LTD and some others.  Why do I say this?  Because it's simply not possible for everyone to succeed,  Diamonds push tools and functions on everyone, without making individual assessments on each business.  The diamonds profit regardless of the results of their downline.

When I stopped and really thought about it, pretty much every piece of advice I received, I had to pay for. Voicemails, standing orders, functions, open meetings. I know these are supposedly optional, but in reality, they are a defacto requirement. Anyone with a "dream" is going to buy the tools because the leaders will tell you that you cannot succeed without tools. Ironically, the same leaders will blame individuals and cite personal responsibility for the failure of downline IBOs, even the ones who did everything they were told.  Where's the personal responsibility of the upline leaders?

The leaders are edified and touted as having great business and financial acumen, thus not following their advice would seem foolish. Yet Amway defenders will try to claim that IBOs should discern the good and the bad and operate independently. It's a redundancy that many people do not see. Sure, a downline should not jump off a cliff because upline said they would pad their fall with a pile of cash, but many IBOs put in an earnest effort in Amway, only to fail because of the handicaps and reputation issues that Amway has. These IBOs are told they were lazy or quit too soon, or did not try hard enough. Yet the very few who manage to break thru are edified along with the system while ignoring the multitudes who do not make it.

The bottom line for IBOs and prospects to know, is that I believe most IBO leaders do not know you or care about you and your success. They are more interested in selling you websites, voicemail, standing orders and functions. They know that people will come and go and they are perfectly happy replacing quitters with new people, as long as the system tools keep flowing. I believe some of the US diamonds are now hurting as Amway is apparently shrinking in the US. I read recently of Amway downsizing some of their operations, seemingly confirming that US sales are down. Also to note, Upline leaders would have to share tool profits with new emeralds and diamonds, which is why I believe they do not want new success.

I believe that Amway, other MLM businesses, Kiyosaki, or real estate gurus all have very limited or rare success with their financial systems. Informercials usually have a disclaimer that success is a "UNIQUE" experience. Amway is no different. But I believe in all of these cases, more money is generated in selling the system than by actually running the system. If not, success stories would be rampant and people would line up to sign up instead of having to be deceived into even hearing the pitch.

Success Speaks For Itself?

 I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if Diamonds and Amway IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 10,000 people applying for these positions. When the federal government hires for the local post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.  It's because the salary and working conditions are good, and the benefits are as well.

But Diamonds and Amway IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products, and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity. But that isn't the case. Clearly, many Amway IBOs use some degree of deception usually called the curiosity approach or outright lies.

Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hordes of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.

In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 30+ years ago, minus the diamonds who died while still working the business. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO in the 1990s. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!  Where is the success, or the "fruit on the tree" that WWDB leaders used to like to tout?  The tree is barren.

The Impossible Dream?

 Every year, tens of millions of kids across the US have dreams of playing sports. Some dream of playing professionally, some dream of playing at the collegiate level, some may have dreams of dazzling their high school peers. And this can apply to just about any sport, be it baseball, football, hockey, basketball, golf or whatever endeavor you can think of. As you progress to each of the next higher levels, the number of participants decrease. There are only so many professional teams, and so many college teams, while there are scores of high school teams all across the country. As each level gets higher, it is likely that better physical attributes and greater skills are needed in order to move on. 

I've heard some Amway supporters make comparisons between the Amway opportunity and how the higher levels are like the professionals and the rank and file are like the high schoolers. While I agree that there's only limited space at the higher levels, i think it's extremely important to note why the masses do not achieve the highest levels. In sports, you would need to have the motivation, the physical gifts, as well as the skills to achieve and excel at the highest level. Thus, people who are small in stature likely won't be candidates for the NFL or NBA even with a lot of motivation. Someone under 6' tall might have great difficulty in getting a job in the NBA. Of course there are always exceptions, but those exceptions are made up by perhaps, incredible "other" skills or leadership. Some athletes have a knack for being in the right place at the right time, or an intangible.  

So what does this have to do with Amway? The connection is the massive amounts of Amway IBOs who never achieve even the break even point. They may come into the program with dreams of financial freedom, or making enough to have a stay home wife, etc. Why do so few achieve even the lowest levels? In my opinion, the Amway business has too many barriers that prevent IBOs from succeeding. These barriers make it nearly impossible for anyone to reach the higher levels. These barriers include but are not limited to high prices that make many products a tough sell. Then you have the optional but vital training and functions that normally drain whatever profit the lower level IBOs make. Even someone at 2500 or 4000 PV will net a loss if they need to travel by air to functions. You can also factor in some of the zany things previous IBOs have done such as tricking people into attending meetings, or not being accountable to downline, or by messing with your downline's money (bouncing checks).  

In the end, the masses of IBOs just do not possess the ability to overcome these barriers that can stop the charge of a bull elephant. It is why so many IBOs try hard and achieve nothing. While much effort may be expended, it looks as if these folks did nothing and quit. The reality is that most people who sign up were highly motivated but more likely found an impossible barrier and decided to do something else. I know of many former IBOs who went onto succeed in life after Amway. Many do not complain or voice complaints because they were involved in Amway with family and friends.  

So in Amway and in pro sports, there are masses who want to achieve their dreams. In both cases, a tiny percentage might achieve the top levels. The difference is that athletes know that their chances are small. IBOs are often misled into thinking that everyone can achieve diamond and residual income, which is a myth. Also in pro sports, there is no scam where people have a proven training system that will ensure success if you work hard. In pro sports, it is proven that the elite make millions. Whereas Amway diamonds seem to shroud their success in secrecy, showing pictures of mansions to show off success. Also, athletes may not make the professional ranks but may have benefited by getting a free college education. There aren't any stories of success in Amway for those who don't "make it", as far as I know. Are you chasing an impossible dream?

Random Observation Of Amway?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Socialism And Wealth Redistribution?

 I wrote a blog post on November 5, 2025 (last month) about Zohran Mamdani winning the mayor's race in New York City.  He made a lot of promises and I believe many of his promises will not come to fruition because it requires the assistance of the State, and governor Hochul, who is up for re-election in 2026, may not want to cooperate with all of his desires and promises, because she might be in a battle for her own seat and raising taxes and fees in an election year is usually not a good idea, even in deep blue New York.  

This article stirred some responses, which I welcome.  But I wanted to focus on one aspect of Mr. Mamdani's platform.  That he doesn't believe that billionaires should exist.  I would assume that to mean that he wants to do something (as a democrat socialist) that Bernie Sanders advocated for, which is a 100% tax on income/assets over a certain amount.  I would guess that means anyone approaching a billion dollars in net worth would not get to keep anything over $999,999,999.00.  While in the world of socialism, this sounds ideal and nobody needs that much money is the argument.   By the way, does anyone notice that in socialism, the politicians are still wealthy?  I thought many New Yorkers advocated for "no kings"?

The problem is that billionaire types of rich people are rich because they generate wealth and most often know how to protect it.  Nobody with knowledge and resources will allow government to take away any assets beyond a billion dollars.  They would take "capital flight", which would be to leave NY, or the US and go to tax havens such as Switzerland or the Cayman islands.   The irony with Mr. Sander's argument also, is that he's worth a lot of money.  Maybe not a billion, but tens of millions.  I don't see him surrendering any of his assets that he "doesn't need" voluntarily.  So maybe, just maybe his idea is a NIMBY one?  

I did a check just before writing this article.  The top 1% of earners in the US pays 40% of all federal taxes in the US.  So much for the myth that the rich don't pay their fair share.  To expand this, the top 25% or so of earners in the US pay 80% of the taxes.  So, the rich not paying their fair share is a myth.  Certain politicians keep saying this, but they are speaking without a factual basis.   The bottom 75% of earners pay about 10% of federal taxes.  

But socialism may seem like a good idea to young people who entertain the idea of being able to receive universal basic income, along with free bus service, etc.  Rent controlled apartments, etc.  But when you have too many people receiving and not contributing, the system starts to fail.   Also, rent controlled apartments falls apart when landlords get increased property taxes and expenses and deem the venture unable to render a profit.  Then you run out of rentals.  

Let me paint another picture:  Elon Musk is currently the richest man in the world with a net worth just below 500 billion.  If the government were to take away all of Elon's assets and distributed all of that in cash to everyone on the planet, each person alive would get about $40 each.  In poor countries, the money would go further of course, and, in the US, you might get a meal or few days' worth of groceries.  Then Elon would be broke, unable to fund Space X, research on things to make our lives better and about 160,000 high paying jobs in highly skilled areas would be out of work, and unable to contribute to the tax base.  The one-time $40 payment would be gone in no time, but the aftereffects would be devastating.  I know that nobody has proposed doing this, but squeezing the rich as a whole could still see this kind of effect spread out.  Capital flight is real.   California and New York already had a large exodus of residents to tax friendly states like Texas and Florida.  Gavin Newsom can deny it and claim how big and great California's economy is.  And while he might be right, Silicon Valley existed well before Newsom was governor and if taxes and regulations squeeze out companies like Nvidia and other big tech companies, then what?  What if New York's Wall Street moved to Florida?  The tax consequences to these states would be devastating.  

These are just some reasons why I do not believe socialism can succeed.   I hope Mr. Mamdani moves towards the center on some of his policy ideas, but if not, I believe New York will struggle greatly.  Maybe not immediately, but socialism fails when the government runs out of other people's money to fund "free stuff".  And this article doesn't even address Mr. Mamdani's idea to replace armed police with social workers and having a smaller police force.  There's a reason why people generally speaking, do not rob banks if a police car is in the parking lot, and people generally do not speed and drive recklessly if an officer is on to road with them.  It's called deterrence.  It's almost the same reason why many night clubs have bouncers that look like the incredible Hulk at the doors.

Good luck New York City.  I hope I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.

  

The Big Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can make some money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii, and they all moved to the mainland. Now I'm not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the signup fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significant over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the signup fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best-case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Around The Corner?

  When I was an Amway IBO, I heard the saying over and over. Never quit, success might be right around the corner. There were countless stories by diamonds and emeralds of how they were on the verge of quitting but stuck it out and somehow "made it".  I also heard stories about why people should not quit because even if you were told "no" a thousand times, the next prospect might say "yes" and turn your entire business around. This mindset is almost like a gambler who thinks the next hand or the next roll of the dice will suddenly start the beginning of a good run.   While Amway is not a game of chance, I find it telling that the success rates of IBOs is lower than the chances of winning a game of chance.

I believe these are all heartfelt stories. However, I believe that many stories are embellished and made to order. Or in other words, made to fit a standing order. If you listen carefully to many of the standing orders, you will notice that the higher pins were consistently sponsoring people and generally achieved the platinum level in 18 months or less. There are exceptions of course, but the majority of stories I heard seem to have had the same theme. Those who were destined for success achieved some significant level in less than 2 years.  And that's life.  Some people will have a greater propensity for success than others.

But for IBOs and new recruits, if you aren't constantly bringing in new people to the open meetings, and sponsoring new people, then you are very unlikely to ever achieve much in Amway. Statistically, less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum. Thus, if you are unable to grow your organization or group, then you are unlikely to be that one who "makes it". Success is not around the corner as some uplines will have you believe. If you take 100 "no's" and then someone finally says "yes" then chances are that person who said yes, will "do nothing", or do little and wind up quitting. Chances are that person won't sponsor anyone or show anyone the plan. Chances are that person won't even be in the business a few months later.

It might be a good idea for IBOs to take a step back and take an unbiased look at their business and their business activities. Is your group growing consistently? Is your volume increasing each month? Are you able to get people interested in seeing the plan on a consistent basis? If you answered "no" to any of these points, then you are unlikely to progress and achieve anything of significance in the Amway business.   Not quitting only keeps you invested in tools and functions, which the diamonds handsomely profit from.  Why do you think they always teach never to quit?   Sometimes quitting a business and doing something else is the best business decision you can make.  It doesn't mean you quit trying to better yourself.  It just means you might need a better vehicle to achieve success.  

One important thing for people to note is that there are many ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams. Amway is probably not the best vehicle for most. The numbers speak for themselves. If less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum, where allegedly, IBOs finally break even or a see a small profit, then I would say your chances of success are better elsewhere, even if that is a second job. The average "active" IBO earns about $200 a month according to Amway. Considering all IBOs, then the average income is probably about $100 a month. You can earn much more than that working 4-5 hours a week at minimum wage.

Is success right around the corner? I doubt it.